Good Morning Oppo, here's some news that I didn't expect to read this morning

"KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time" (kngt) 01/08/2019 at 10:02 • Filed to: Pony Cars, pony car, dodge challenger, chevy camaro, ford mustang, challenger, camaro, mustang, muscle cars, news, Sales Figures, Sales Data

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The Challenger outsold the Camaro in 2018.

Which one would you choose?

But the Mustang is still #1

From Motorauthority:

Despite a decrease in sales of 7.4 percent compared to the previous year, Ford managed to sell 75,842 Mustangs in 2018 . The figure is more than enough to claim the number one spot after its first full year on sale after a mid-cycle refresh.

Second place goes to the Dodge Challenger. Although it placed second of the three, Dodge should celebrate the fact that it is the only brand that saw sales of muscle cars rise. In 2018, Challenger sales rose 3 percent year-over-year with a total of 66,716 cars sold. We have a feeling the Challenger SRT Demon had something to do with the uptick as more buyers jumped on the bandwagon by nameplate association. The Challenger is also archaic compared to the Mustang and Camaro, but buyers continue to flock to the car for affordable V-8 power and retro good looks.

A redesign of the Challenger and platform-sharing mate Charger isn’t due until sometime early next decade. FCA’s late chief, Sergio Marchionne, told Motor Authority last June that the redesigned cars may stick with the current-gen platform, albeit a heavily updated version.

Finally, in last place is the Chevrolet Camaro. Despite its sharp chassis and three different engine choices, the Camaro continues to flounder in the segment. Last year, the Camaro found just 50,963 homes—a decrease of 25 percent year-over-year . Since the sixth-generation car debuted, the Camaro battled to gain traction in the segment after banner years earlier this decade with the fifth-generation car. Readers may recall it was often the Camaro in first place atop both the Mustang and Challenger.

And that new 2019 SS face is not going to help- A reminder:

E90M3 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:04

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Should I really be surprised? 

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:05

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Rental fleet sales, also there are more than 3 engine choices. 

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > E90M3 01/08/2019 at 10:06

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That is kinda what 2019 looks like, which will screw up SS numbers this year. But in 2016-2018 the SS looked REALLY good

This is the RS v6 version

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 01/08/2019 at 10:07

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Any idea what % of each model goes to rental fleets? Manufacturers rarely share those numbers, if at all.

InFierority Complex > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:08

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Doesn’t seem surprising. From anecdotal personal sightings the Camaro is a distant third  behind the Challenger with the Mustang on top. I can’t even remember the last time I saw one.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > InFierority Complex 01/08/2019 at 10:09

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...Or saw out of one.

BeaterGT > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:11

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Wonder how many Challenger GTs are in those figures.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:12

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Not really surprising. The Challenger is a far more comfortable car for daily use IMO, with nearly as much performance.

I’d easily take a slight hit in performance to have a far nicer car for daily use.

benjrblant > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:20

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Am I just getting old? None of these cars excite me like they used to when I was a kid. Of the three, I think the Mustang looks the best, but there’s no way I’d want to own any of the three. They’re just... meh to me. I dunno why.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:21

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Arguably the best car, but the worst design.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/what-jacket-wont-you-wear-1830684828

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/08/2019 at 10:24

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Makes sense. With these cars becoming more and more expensive it’s the older folks who can actually afford it and they would want to get a GT car they can sit comfortably in and see out of. And those who want the absolute highest drag monsters will go for the 392/Hellcat/Redeye/Demon. AND the Challenger offers AWD+V6 so that’s a unique offering.

The Young ‘uns who want tunability or outright performance would go for the Camaro/Mustang 2.0t or V8 because they are genuine sportscars now and a lot of car for the coin, but looks like there were not many of them who can afford it. But I did expect more Camaros than Challengers because it’s newer and highly praised in reviews. I guess it comes down to real everyday use considerations.

Arrivederci > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:26

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Heyyyooooooooooo

camarov6rs > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:27

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Would love to see those numbers and average transaction prices. Chevy won’t care as much i f sales are down if profits are up. Supposedly the profit is their target not the #1 sales title.

MrDakka > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:30

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Of course a boat will outsell a bunker

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2019 at 10:32

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Hah! Seem my relevant comment there

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/1830685143

Tapas > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:45

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Well, the new one does have a face only a mother can love.

If anything, I’m surprised 50,000 people who weren’t the Camaro’s mother paid money for it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:46

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“ No to Challenger but yes to Charger.”

Haha! I’m actually the opposite, based on styling, but I wouldn’t own either. Too many lbs for my taste. 

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 10:51

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I can’t put into words how much this makes me irate.

The Camaro is the best looking, best driving, and best built of all of the three big American coupe offerings, and yet Chevrolet decided to screw it all up with some half-assed redesign that their bean-counters thought was good. It just makes me sad.

Chevy won’t be getting my money any time soon, I’ll stick to the other three GM manufacturers.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 01/08/2019 at 11:00

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The made one with a body color piece splitting the grill, for SEMA that was slightly better. Hope they go ahead with that change  like the FP reported.

https://jalopnik.com/chevrolet-reportedly-scrambling-to-fix-the-2019-camaro-1829936149

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 11:36

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I wish I liked the Camaro. It is by far, the best to drive spirited ly. It is just a terrible car. No storage, no passenger room, no truck space and looks (I personally) do not like. The Challenger is an awesome GT car and the Mustang is a balance of the two. I like the looks of the (pre-facelift) Mustang the best and it has a lot of neat features.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/08/2019 at 11:55

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I think you’ re onto something. It IS the most ‘crossover’ like of the three and those things are so hot right now.

shop-teacher > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 01/08/2019 at 12:42

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“The Camaro is the best looking”

Not since they changed it.  At least half of the reason people buy impractical cars is for their looks, but they ruined it.  It’s hideous!   

shop-teacher > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 12:43

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That’s because Chevy has royally effed up their styling.  I mean, between the Camaro, the new Silverado, and the TRAVERSE, the Traverse is by far the most attractive vehicle of those three.  

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > shop-teacher 01/08/2019 at 12:47

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The 2018 sales decline were not a result of the new styling though, other factors like visibility and price perhaps . The ugly face is the 2019 model, See my other comment here and I think it will hit sales this year for sure . I still think the 2016-18 looks better than the competition.

shop-teacher > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 13:09

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The problem with the 2016-18, IMO , was that it looked so much like the previous gen, it offered very little incentive to step up to the new one.

M.T. Blake > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 14:00

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Other than the Camaro being fuckugly... why buy the Challenger?! It’s a dinosaur! And we all know how Dodge is for reliability and build quality - said me, a Dodge enthusiast. 

Gerry197 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 15:02

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I agree on looks and also performance it is the superior car. But people owning only one car will have issue with the Camaro.

Hard to see out of and a less rear room interior space is a big factor. The SN95 Mustang sold double the combined sales of Camaro/Firebird even though it wasn’t faster. But it was a better overall daily driver.

I fear the same could happen again to this generation Camaro which has focused too much on performance/styling and less on overall convenience.  

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 15:13

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Ask Lexus or Pontiac . G ril le design matters. Aesthetic is money.

(I’m okay with the Camaro face but I’m not their target buyer) 

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 15:37

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The V8 Challenger has the looks and sound that I would want in a muscle car. It’s a bit large and boaty, but that’s really how muscle cars have always been as a genre .

The Camaro is out because it’s too impractical. These cars are supposed to be decent everyday commuters and the Camaro does not cut it. Doesn’t matter how many lap time trophies it wins—muscle car buyers don’t do lap times.

The Mustang is a happy medium—it’s a great all-around car if you don’t have rear-facing kids.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > shop-teacher 01/08/2019 at 15:50

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i honestly dont have the traverse or the blazer

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 16:10

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5-6 years ago I bet all that stopped me from buying a Mustang was the fact it wasn’t available in AWD, it’s just far easier for me, being in Michigan. I can get by without winter tires, but wouldn’t want to do it with RWD. And with me street-parking I just don’t want to deal with another set of wheels and tires.

Zip-McBump > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 16:21

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Not surprising at all... The Mustang has always been the most accessible, the Challenger has been the best looking, and the Camaro has had many handicaps to overcome. Price, visibility, and now, it’s ugly-ass fascia.

This just goes to show that you can’t beat a world-beater (North American Beater??) with performance alone.

The Camaro used to be a very han dsome car.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! 01/08/2019 at 16:21

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“best looking”

Jayhawk Jake > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 16:27

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As others have said, styling, visibility, and practicality all hurt the Camaro.

What I haven’t seen discussed though is price. The Camaro is the most expensive of the 3 trim to trim IIRC.

Schaef_Camaero Z/28 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 16:31

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I’m not surprised. I tend to see so many more Mustangs and Challengers than Camaros. Of the three I’d be most likely to buy a Mustang, in fact we were seriously considering one for my wife. A ‘19 E coboost in Velocity Blue, except it was damn near $40k in the configurator. That’s a hard pill to swallow...

I really like the looks & sound of the newer Challenger . I t would probably be my 2nd option, with the Camaro coming in 3rd. (Coming from a guy who’s owned a camaro for 13 years..)

shop-teacher > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 01/08/2019 at 16:37

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The Blazer isn’t doing it for me. Those overhangs are Y UGE. I haven’t seen one in person though.

PS9 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 01/08/2019 at 17:58

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I wonder why people think rental fleet sales don’t count somehow. It’s not like enterprise is giving car companies IOUs instead of real money.

ranwhenparked > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/08/2019 at 19:01

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Yep, traditional, plush, big car ride quality, giant trunk, and 5 seats instead of 4.

Plus, I have to think that there’s still a decent number of traditional-minded buyers that prefer a big, naturally aspirated 6 as the base engine,  instead of a boosted 4.

ranwhenparked > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 19:05

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For a design more than a decade old, on a platform even older, that is now in its 5th model year since the last refresh, that is really damn impressive. And FCA has to be making a very healthy profit on them, too, considering the development and tooling costs have to have been long since amortized.

The Chrysler 300 also had one of its best years ever in 2018, too, in a category that is otherwise marked for death (and the 300 itself is on borrowed time, as well, recent successes notwithstanding).

This just means that Fiat Chrysler needs to tread very carefully with the next generation model, and make very sure that they keep whatever unique  attributes the current car has that are driving sales at this advanced age, while working in a few necessary modern concessions. 

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 20:33

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I was a GM apologist for a long time but I would get a Mustang or Challenger before a C amaro. The Corvette is the only Chevy that looks like it wasn’t designed by a group of people who hate each other. Cohesive design and Chevy have been opposites for almost all of their current generation.

19JRC99 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 22:20

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Well, it may be because I work at a Dodge dealership, but just about everybody I talk to likes the Challenger more. 

19JRC99 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/08/2019 at 22:24

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The Scat Packs are really, really popular with younger guys, at least around here. One of the guys I work with had one, he’s 18 (it got totaled- not his fault) and another one is wanting one (also 18). And at 19, I’d rather have one over a Camaro.

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 01/09/2019 at 01:06

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You’re obviously ignoring the whole entire part where I ramble about how GM screwed it up with the 2019 refresh. I’m strictly talking about 2016-2018.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ranwhenparked 01/09/2019 at 06:59

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I know I do for one.

After owning big NA V6s, turbo fours seem sluggish and laggy, regardless of what the numbers say.